High Springs Herald

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 8:29 PM:

" It was a staff writer. But, the topic was all the rage today:) "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:39 PM:

" It really doesn't say who syndicated, only had the author. I looked. It quickly disappeared from home page of sun after the announcement of coach Fuller's death and then Tebow's possible draft with the Jaguars. "

Charles Grapski wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:21 PM:

" Wow, the Sun has "something" in it! Now there is a surprise.

Was it a syndicated story or column - I am guessing. "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:46 PM:

" The voter guides distributed in Churches violate the teachings of the Bible and, with the bias to a minority they should be in direct violation with FEC rules. Circumventing and, letting lobby do it for you does not take away from the fact that the Church is operating in violation of a tax free status. I think it is way past time for some serious reform to Tax exempt status of Churches who abuse society. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:11 PM:

" There is a very interesting article in today's Gainesville Sun about civility and the American culture. Worth a read.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090916/ARTICLES/909161007/1002?Title=What-s-happened-to-civility- "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 11:58 AM:

" Did you know Jerry Falwell took out loans from the Cult leader Sun Moon to keep his organization a float? And, some of the return favor was him pressuring the President (I think Reagen)at that time to let them stay at a tax exempt status. Or was it Tax Evasion. I forget. No one is really Shocked and, no one complacent can enter with a statement Not In My Church. A child of 11 in Atlanta hung himself in April. He DID NOT IDENTIFY GAY but, the bullying and Gay taunts were too much to bear. Religious leaders just like Falwell (I hope he is in hell)are standing on a national front preaching hate. These leaders of the conventions that churches take the lead from. A church may not have anything to do with this directly but, a religion and, their dogma of hate certainly does. Your silent to it. Your an accomplice. "

Charles Grapski wrote on Sep 16, 2009 10:08 AM:

" You raise an interesting point about this with the Fallwell issue.

Perhaps he might consider the "he who is without sin" concept - as one of the truly hypocritical types of "evangelicals" - he is primarily a political not religious actor (and businessman).

But it does seem that there are many so-called "Christians" who do not follow the teachings of Jesus who, of course, said that it was for God to judge in the arena of "sin."

Certainly any historical and logical reading of the New Testament would show that Jesus was not preaching that one should not be critical - since he was critical - in particular of those in authority who abused authority. Thus my points on the "radical" and "rebel" thread last week about Jesus being one of the earlier "rebels/radicals."

But there is a trend in American neo-Christianity (the "evangelical" movement of particularly the televangalist ilk) to use this "sin" category to judge people (not on their public actions but on their private lives).

And thus it is linked to the hate-actions, in that they are encouraged to JUDGE and ACT UPON that judgment contra the teachings of Jesus. "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:31 AM:

" ANY CHURCH WHO CARRIES A MESSAGE OF HATE TOWARD A MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD NOT HAVE A TAX EXEMPT STATUS OR RECEIVE FUNDING FOR A FAITH BASED INITIATIVE THAT DRIVE POLITICAL AMBITIONS. IT IS ABOUT AS VULGAR AND CORRUPT AS IT GETS. "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:16 AM:

" last one from Fallwell.com
I know this because I have received hundreds of emails from heterosexuals who have left Christianity directly due to its embrace of homophobia and anti-gay prejudice. Peace, love and meekness have been replaced by a gospel of intolerance, ignorance and political ambition.
To be frank with you, the idea that being gay is a sin and is something that a person can pray away is simply ridiculous. In the year 2006, we should no longer be afraid to reject these antiquated notions about sexual orientation. The truth must be permitted to illuminate one's faith. "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:13 AM:

" part 2 from Fallwell .com
both my attorney, Paul Levy of the Public Citizen Litigation Group and Jerry Falwell's attorney presented their oral arguments before a panel of three justices.
In a unanimous, 3-0 decision, the Fourth Circuit reversed the decision of the lower court. The court decisively ruled that this site did not violate trademark law, as Rev. Falwell had asserted. Jerry then petitioned the Supreme Court of the United States and requested that they hear his appeal of that ruling. On April 17, 2006, the court denied his request. This case is over, and this site may stay!

The purpose of this website
Many otherwise well-meaning people have accepted the untruth that gay people are committing a sin. Jerry Falwell has been one of America's leading promoters of this mistaken idea. This notion has created profound suffering and torment, not only for gay people, but for their friends and families as well. It has also dealt a devastating blow to Christianity itself, as fair-minded people have turned away in response. "

Fran wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:11 AM:

" part one from Fallwell.com
Supreme Court turns down Rev. Falwell's appeal request!
The case is over and this website may stay online.
by Christopher Lamparello

I started this website in 1999. It was done with the best motives in mind, which were to challenge Reverend Falwell's preachings and teachings as they regard people who are gay or lesbian. In particular, I sought to directly challenge his belief that homosexuality is a sin.
Being gay is not a sin, and it is not something that a person can "repent" from. It is not something that can be changed, despite claims that some make to the contrary.
In an attempt to take this website for himself, Reverend Falwell filed suit against me in a Virginia district court about three years ago. The local court decided in his favor. I strongly disagreed with that decision. Therefore, I took my case to a higher court; the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. On Thursday, May 26, 2005, "

Charles Grapski wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:01 AM:

" I'd say it was naive or perhaps blind to say that anyone in today's America cannot see that there ARE "churches" (often they fall into that category - and are chosen to be such things - primarily for the TAX EXEMPT status) with primarily political agendas and not religious ones, that confuse bigotry and hatred with Christianity (which does, in its true essence, have a message/moral of "love" (and "peace"), and who have contributed greatly to the ignorance and misperception of homosexuality.

And anyone who knows basic logic knows that your type of argument - well I have seen 1 (or maybe 2 or indeed many) and therefore I can say with certainty, since I haven't seen any of "those" kinds, that there aren't any.

You may have never seen a black swan. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any.

But you would have to be blind not to see - given that it is all over the TV (they even have their own stations) - "those" kinds of "churches" or "preachers" or so-called (self-called) "christians" (I won't capitalize it here and will put it in quotes to emphasize the distinction). "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 15, 2009 10:15 PM:

" I have sat in congregations where political petitions have circulated. Particularly against gays. I have seen parents disown their gay kids at the prompting of pastors. I have encountered pedophiles who were not corrected because they had a skill that benefited the church. I have seen congregations divided because they could not decide which type of music is Godly. I have received voters checklists from ministers telling me how to vote. And over the course of 20 some years have have received the Maureen Madeline O'Hare FCC petition either from a concerned Christian or via email over 10 times including twice since her disappearance. I have been asked to name it and claim it. I have been criticized for sending my tithe to poverty stricken nations or feeding someone instead of putting the $ in the offering plate. All of this in various churches and various denominations within a 30 mile radius of High Springs. I think the final straw was the Barak Obama emails that circulated before the election that were incredibly mean spirited. And also full of lies. Many of these came from devout church goers.

Pray for the church. "

Fran wrote on Sep 15, 2009 8:27 PM:

" Will you pray for my box turtle too? "

shocked wrote on Sep 15, 2009 4:28 PM:

" Fran and all the rest of you - I don't know where you have tried to go to church that you learned such hatred from Christianity. I go to a church that preachs that God is love. They also teach that you love the sinner and hate the sin and not to do harm to anyone. I will pray for you. "

Fran wrote on Sep 15, 2009 10:49 AM:

" Most Gays I know have extreme peace and, believe in a world that is headed toward self awareness versus the dehumanization which is rampant within the Christian community. THAT is where they can look as to why the faith is loosing members more and more. Aside from those raised in cults and, radically programed, their youth grow up and realize one day that the us versus them world in which the church creates towards minorities is not a world they wish to perpetuate. Don't blame me. YOU RAISED THEM. While you were singling out my sexuality and, ignoring your own sins they watched. And, in spite of the hate going around in the name of Christ those non political in spirit know different and, LOve will conquer all. In the name of all those non exclusive and spiritual without self prosper and, p-political agenda amen:) "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 14, 2009 10:43 PM:

" Since the beginning of time there have been charlatans, thieves and immoral people. Nothing will ever change this. All societies and cultures and religions from the beginning of time have struggled to gain more for themselves. And they have used bigotry and oppression to justify. Jesus saw this and he openly condemned the religious leaders of the time for such. Thats why they hated him. That's why they killed him. It was either love thy neighbor as thyself or do away with thy neighbor. They could not bring themselves to accept his teaching. Each and every day every one of us has to get up and choose what type of person we will be. This includes overcoming our biases and living as a civil person, helping those we can along the way and finding peace within. "

Fran wrote on Sep 14, 2009 8:19 PM:

" I hear ya but, anyone who is anyone that recognizes the self serving nature of the religiosity that was the catalyst of the destruction of the native American culture, the Salem witch hunts, that fought to keep slavery, that stood against the civil rights movement, that fought inter racial marriage, intolerance of other faiths and, their agenda today trying to stop equal rights of homosexuals all while under the protective blanket of a tax exempt status that promotes hate is un American. I was a witness to much of this and, the recent inclusion of blacks by the southern baptist convention and, the reasons behind it do not escape many who know that Jesus and God are not the driving force of this hate. I see every day many deviant behaviors of those supposed leaders the blind follow. And, how sheltered they are within a broken segment of Christianity choosing politics over God once again. It is what is being done to humanity that bothers me more than any one instance where I have been personally attacked. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 14, 2009 12:19 PM:

" Unfortunately the religious community no longer understands what they stand for, only what they are against. Since the hijacking of the church by the Republican party many have decided to jump on a cause other than biblical doctrine. They have forgot how to think for themselves. The Republican party has taken advantage of this to gain votes. Example: no matter how corrupt I am I will ride a pro-life platform to attract the Christian vote. Like livestock being led to slaughter they blindly single issue vote. Never mind the other issues. And talk radio has become their false prophet. Forget about Jesus Christ crucified, I have Rush. Many of us who are politically moderate have just given up going to church because of the affiliation with the extreme right. We got tired of the hate emails about Mexicans and gays and Obama.

Don't feel too bad though, they treat each other badly too. "

Fran wrote on Sep 14, 2009 10:56 AM:

" Where ever the words of hate the victim experienced while being beat unconscious come from, the re enforcement and, reminders while trying to heal fro it will be amplified and validated in a very very large segment of the Christian community. I'm well qualified having been a victim myself. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 14, 2009 8:50 AM:

" While I agree with the statements about American Christianity (particularly since its marriage with the Republican party) I still believe Bracewell's motive was a mixed bag. Too much booze, too much talk radio and his upbringing. I don't think there is any single factor that motivated him. "

Charles Grapski wrote on Sep 14, 2009 8:18 AM:

" This story truly doesn't have anything to do with Christianity.

However, that said, there is an ABUSE of religion, particularly among some who call themselves "Christian," but who spread messages of intolerance and hate.

The "realm" of religion has become in America a notorious place for greed, corruption, scams, hatred, etc.. And the true religion itself, the "message" (or philosophy - the MORAL philosophy) tends to get lost. But we have plenty of examples of the use of religion to obtain tax free property (lot's of it - excessively so), to become rich (excessively so), and to spread messages of hate (i.e. people who carry signs saying things like "God hates fags" and are accepted as being "Christian"), and of course the ever-popular use of religion as a political power base.

What is needed is more Christianity from those who deem themselves Christian. Which means openly challenging the charlatans, hucksters, power-mongerers, and TRUE "sinners."

Certainly the teachings of Jesus are in conflict with much that is "passed along" as Christian in America these days. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 13, 2009 2:35 PM:

" Life is not always that black and white. I could be his culture or his upbringing. It could be the experience he had in prison, it could be the lack of education. It could be listening to talk radio 24/7. It could be religion. Who knows. Most people Evangelical, gay or otherwise acknowledge societal norms. His behavior deviates from societal norms for whatever reason. No groups other than KKK or skinhead would place a stamp of approval on this type of violence. To place responsibility of this act on every Christian is a smaller scale equivalent of blaming every Moslem in America for 9/11. "

Fran wrote on Sep 13, 2009 2:05 PM:

" You do not have to attend church to get the Evangelical message and agenda of hate and exclusion. This Gay basher was a bigot before he was ever incarcerated. It is his acts of violence that put him in prison. Not a prison made me do it situation at all. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 13, 2009 1:25 PM:

" Prison sexuality is more complex than homosexuality. Gays, small framed men, whites and first time inmates are more likely to be victimized. If you recall this actually happened to a college student doing weekend confinement in ACDC a few years back. Unless one understands it is based on power and control it could be misunderstood as homosexuality. Check out this website.http://www.spr.org/ "

Fran wrote on Sep 13, 2009 1:09 PM:

" Human Right Watch:
Although gay inmates are much more likely than other inmates to be victimized in prison, they are not likely to be perpetrators of sexual abuse."[3] "

Fran wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:36 AM:

" One would hope that the religious teachings that encourage love of one's neighbor would trump bigotry.Studies show otherwise. They show conservative beliefs coupled with the current self serving religions tend to be more bigoted than those non religious. Gods message is not getting through. Just doctrine void of any spiritually or love. It is the hate within your churches that trickles out into society via your political agendas of exclusion. God is watching. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 13, 2009 9:58 AM:

" Another possibility is that he encountered prison sexuality during a period of incarceration. Prison sexuality deviates other forms of sexuality whether homosexual or heterosexual. "

Fran wrote on Sep 12, 2009 10:59 PM:

" Not a political agenda for him. Just a deep dark rooted bigotry he learned from those responsible for the anti gay sentiment and, vilification thereof. Same place his racism and, male superiority comes from. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 12, 2009 8:48 PM:

" People who at 37 years of age still engage in this juvenile behavior are operating more out of a self centered mania than a political motive. Alcoholism and addictions. The mark of a ruined life, not a political agenda. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 12, 2009 8:44 PM:

" And theft and violence. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 12, 2009 8:43 PM:

" Reviewing public records in Gilchrist and Alachua county reveals that Mr. Bracewell has a long criminal history. Alcohol and dope. "

Fran wrote on Sep 12, 2009 7:58 PM:

" It does not matter that the article fails to mention what motivates Gay hate. The reason is evident in the Christian Evangelical agenda against gays. Mike Huckabee, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and, so many more have infamously stated far more than a disagreement or disapproval. And, the frenzy of the fringes and, your failure to be accountable makes you compliant. "

Christian wrote on Sep 12, 2009 6:18 PM:

" First off, this article never said that the men who beat the victim were Christians. I seriously doubt they were. Second, you shouldn't judge all Christians based on the actions of other Christians. God is a God of love. We are to love all people, as all people sin,it is our nature. It's not just about our actions, it's about a relationship with Jesus. "

For Freedom wrote on Sep 12, 2009 2:27 PM:

" I agree with you Vince. It was the beer and the lack of education. I doubt these guys spend much time in church but I bet they listen to talk radio to justify. Probably do the same thing to their wives, kids and girlfriends. "

Vince wrote on Sep 12, 2009 1:19 PM:

" Beaten after "several people QUESTIONED his sexuality"??? What the hell does that mean? Some locals (drunks with 8th grade educations and 3rd grade reading levels) hanging out at neighborhood package store give a customer a hard time, then two of these brilliant examples of the community decide to beat the crap out of him. And what was the manager doing when this started? "

Fran wrote on Sep 12, 2009 9:27 AM:

" Another section of the paper has Catholic Charities and, a picture of empty shelves where food should go. I guess they found spending millions to fight marriage equality across this Country worthy enough to allow people to go hungry. I wonder how much they are about to spend trying to outlaw abortion in Florida. Sorry, I'll take my money and, my can goods elsewhere where I know all are spiritually administered to. Not only are your shelves empty but, you are spiritually bankrupt. "

Zeke Krahlin wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:20 PM:

" I offer my "I Bash Back" button/decal design for any pro-gay advocate to wear, or attach anywhere else, free of charge.

http://www.gay-bible.org/button-01/index-button_01.htm#TOP0 "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:15 PM:

" Katharine Lee Bates was an ardent feminist and the author of the song "America the Beautiful." She attended Wellesley college and later returned to join the faculty. While on staff she met Katharine Coman and began a relationship that lasted for 25 years. "

jesus wept wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:06 PM:

" oh and lets not forget about those secret little leaflets circulating around high springs a few years back around the time the ten commandment signs went up. if only you had advocated your hate in the open so, i could not patronize your business as well. i dont recall any Christian speaking out against it. "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:43 PM:

" From the SPLC
Anti-gay groups are organizations that go beyond mere disagreement with homosexuality by subjecting gays and lesbians to campaigns of personal vilification.
City Chapter Group
California
Anaheim
Traditional Values Coalition
Anti-Gay
Temecula
Abiding Truth Ministries
Anti-Gay
Vallecito
Chalcedon Foundation
Anti-Gay
Colorado
Colorado Springs
Family Research Institute
Anti-Gay
District of Columbia
Washington
Traditional Values Coalition
Anti-Gay
Georgia
Powder Springs
American Vision
Anti-Gay
Illinois
Downers Grove
Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment
Anti-Gay
Kansas
Topeka
Westboro Baptist Church
Anti-Gay
Massachusetts
Springfield
The School of Christian Activism
Anti-Gay
Waltham
Mass Resistance
Anti-Gay
Washington
Seattle
Watchmen on the Walls
Anti-Gay "

RP wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:34 PM:

" "Oh, that's special - fight violence with violence - oh yeah, that always works! "
Well when it happened to me and those folks claimed to be Christians trying to bring gawd to me, 8 months escalating names, rocks, vandalism then attempted arson, I brought the shotgun out to protect my family when they tried to burn a cross propped against the front of my house, using lumber and kero stolen from me...KKKreestian love at its best. I do know real Christians, but a lot of Evangelicals are more about hate. I grew up around them. I could go on detailing all that has happend to me as a gay man almost all of it perpetrated by KKKreestians. "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:21 PM:

" Here is a fine example of the message of hate versus the choice to spread gods love. Did you speak out against this or just only when a gay is attacked so you can minimize the severity of this mas suffering. Wagging my finger at you.!!!!
Anti-Islam church sign stirs up community outrage
The Dove World Outreach Center in northwest Gainesville posted a sign that says "Islam is of the devil." "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:14 PM:

" This church teaches hate. It is a Christian doctrine. Any churches in this community care to be accountable for what is "broken" in their "religious doctrines"? What they do against their neighbors?

Westboro Baptist Church the web site speaks for itself.
www.godhatesfags.com - "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:04 PM:

" The why not stand with us against clergy that hate?
Group rallies to protest pastor's messageAmanda Keim, Tribune
September 6, 2009 - 4:10PM Love rally protestors line both sides of Southern Avenue outside of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe. Sept. 6, 2009.Darryl Webb, TribuneProtestors flashed peace signs as they held signs with slogans such as "Love thy neighbor" and "Who would Jesus hate?" It was a few weeks ago that Anderson gave another sermon that subsequently threw the small church into the national spotlight. That sermon was titled, "Why I hate Barack Obama," and delivered Aug. 16 - a day before one church member carried an assault rifle as he protested outside an Obama speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Phoenix.Anderson has since confirmed to various media outlets that he prays for Obama's death.That message, as well as other sermons on the church's Web site discussing homosexuals, "We plan on doing (a rally) every Sunday until the reverend stops preaching hate, until the reverend stops advocating murdering people for their sexual orientation," Clark said. "

Will wrote on Sep 11, 2009 9:58 PM:

" I am a self identified evangelical and a student at seminary and this story deeply pains and saddens me. What happened to this man has nothing to do with faith, religion or Christianity. It is just another example of the deep brokenness of our world and the reason I am entering ministry is to work for a world in which this doesn't happen. Jesus hates this and so do I. "

Carson wrote on Sep 11, 2009 9:42 PM:

" The LGBT Community will not take this we will fight back! "

Fran wrote on Sep 11, 2009 7:50 PM:

" I think the evangelicals have contributed largely to a lot of hate and, violence in America with their agenda against Gays, other non Christian religions and, the anti abortion crusade they couple with. I'll never understand why they can not lead by the example Jesus ask us to be. And, the examples they hide behind from a national level is disturbing. I'd suggest tolerance is in order but, sadly these type of Hate crimes statics also include rape and, attacks of women by heterosexual males closest to them. Gender, racial, religious........All hate crimes can not survive in an environment of Love.I'm sure this is not the first time this individual or, the others have attacked another human being. I worry for those closest to them. Especially children. How awful if a child near them genders homosexual. Thats how you get high rates of suicide in teens that are gay. Having to endure hate like this within their immediate families. But, self degradation individuals have to affirm to there peers how horrible someone else is to deflect the darkness of their own heart consumed by hate. And, they perpetuate it to the future.Speak up and stand against hate and violence. "

Karen wrote on Sep 11, 2009 6:14 PM:

" Oh, that's special - fight violence with violence - oh yeah, that always works! How about people try to figure out how to love each other and know that we all have a hard time in life and we shouldn't take it on each other. "

Disgusted American wrote on Sep 11, 2009 2:44 PM:

" this is happening all to frequently of late....I blame the GOP/Religious Extremism. It's about time LGBT citizens start arming themselves..eith er with the knowledge of martial arts/or a gun....BASH BACK! "